Episode 67: The North Star
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Erick and Rich discuss new pricing options coming this summer from ConnectWise and techniques for prodding reluctant clients to adopt security best practices. Then they’re joined by Peter Bretton, vice president of product strategy at NinjaOne, for a look at the managed services market through the eyes of a vendor that pays unusual attention to partner feedback. And finally, one last thing: New frontiers in TSA security check fails.
Discussed in this episode:
New details about ConnectWise’s forthcoming pricing options
Colombian police catch a man smuggling packets of cocaine under toupee
Man found with a live turtle concealed in his pants by TSA at a New Jersey airport
Transcript:
Rich: [00:00:00] And three, two, one, blast off, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of the MSP chat podcast. Your weekly visit with two talking heads, talking with you about the services, strategies, and slick test tips you need to make it big in managed services. My name is Rich Freeman. I am chief analyst, channel master to the organization responsible for the show.
I am joined as I am every week by my good friend, our chief strategist at channel mastered Erick Simpson. Erick, how you doing? I’m holding up really,
Erick: really well, Rich. I’m going to ask that same question back at you. How are you doing?
Rich: I am doing quite well for the benefit of our audience. The reason Erick asks is because I have been somewhat literally globetrotting and we’re going to get into one the big piece of that in just a little bit on this episode of the show, but I just last night, quite late last night actually got back from almost two solid weeks on the road.
And yeah, time zone shifts, jet lag you name it. But given all that I’m doing okay. How about you?
Erick: Yeah I’m doing better than you, I think, because you’ve got the, don’t leave out international travel through all of that. So that that adds an extra bit of spiciness too.
Recovery and and how you feeling and energy levels and, eating back, eating on schedule again and sleeping, all that. So glad to have you back rich.
Rich: Yeah. Yeah. Glad to be back. And actually this is a perfect sort of segue into our story of the week on this episode.
So the international travel in question here was last week, as we record this, I was in London attending the ConnectWise IT Nation EMEA. event. And I’m based in Seattle. This time of year, we’re in this weird little window where there’s a seven hour time difference between the west coast of the U.
S. And London. Ordinarily, it’s eight, but it’s still a seven hour time zone ship. Worth the trip anywhere because it was really interesting getting out there, getting a chance to meet one to one ceo over there, One of the things that I asked him about and asked Jeff Bishop about, he runs the ASIO platform over there, was pricing.
Because the last time I got to speak with either one of them was at IT Nation Connect, the US edition of this event in November. And there was a press conference with with Manny Rivello. First question he got, not from me, but it was on my mind too, is do you folks have anything pricing related in the works?
In light of Kaseya and the Kaseya 365 product line, which as we know, Erick, is disruptively priced is the way I always put it. It’s extremely affordable for what Kaseya is providing folks and what Manny said back in November is yes, he didn’t get into any details whatsoever. He just said at some point in Q1, Erick.
You’re going to hear some things from us on pricing. Now we are just about at the end of Q1. We haven’t heard anything yet. The reason for that is not that they are running into trouble or have changed their mind. The issue is just that as they got into it, they realized it doesn’t make much sense to announce new pricing options at ConnectWise without PSA.
And they will not have. Completely or almost completely ported their PSA product onto the ASIO platform, which is going to be key to these pricing options until about mid year, June, July. And so they’re waiting to roll out these pricing options that they have coming until PSA is on ASIO.
That’s looking like June, July right now. So what I’m about to talk about a little bit here is what we know as of today is coming. And I was a little bit hesitant to get into this, Erick, because it’s. It’s a bit speculative. They are still finalizing things. We’re a few months out right now. And so a lot of what I’m going to be talking about here could change between now and then, but here’s what we know.
And I’m really curious to get your impression about this. So first of all, and this is the key thing. And this is something I didn’t really understand or know. I’m sure a lot of MSPs in our audience know this. They have a lot of different products and solutions of ConnectWise, obviously.
And by their count. There are seven different ways those solutions are priced right now, ranging from per user to per device to per technician to per and installation, et cetera, seven different pricing schemes. So the biggest thing that we know for sure is coming is they’re going to winnow that down to two or possibly three options.
So basically. Every MSP on the planet is billing their clients either on a per device or per user kind of basis. My understanding and where they’re headed to connect wise is when these new pricing schemes come out. Everything that you pay connect wise for you can pay for on a per user or a per device [00:05:00] or potentially both kind of option.
They’re going to let you choose, but they’re going to make it a lot easier and therefore more predictable to pay for and to budget for the solutions that they have. We know that there will be different kind of packages and options. The wording that that Ravello and Bishop both used over and over again in this conversation was pricing and packaging.
So there will be price tags attached to different packages. I think they’re still working on what those packages will look like. But the idea is to give people a number of different kind of bundles, although they don’t like the word bundles, because. This is all running on ASIO. It’s a, it’s one thing.
It’s not a bundle of separate products. This is, different like SKUs or versions of ASIO, their platform, but there will be different versions of this that you’ll be able to choose from we know that they may or may not, this really is TBD, they may or may not include some third party software.
In some of these, optionally, in some of these packages, if you are, deep into Sentinel 1, for example, there may be some way to pay for that with these these pricing schemes, we’ll see. Depends a little bit on how bought in the vendors are on that and how much MSPs between now and mid year say that this is something that they really want.
And then we know that the pricing piece of this pricing and packaging will be lower. For most MSPs than what they are used to paying now, how much lower they’re not really talking and the the vibe I get, Erick, is that they’re not going to be looking to match necessarily similar functionality at a similar price point.
I think they’re going to, this is me reading a little bit into it. I think they’re going to be looking at ways to both make their pricing more consistent and simpler. And. And provide some value reward folks for buying into the ASIO platform. But the expectation is not that they won’t be matching the Kaseya 365 price points, which is one reason why when they talk about why MSPs will want to take advantage of these new pricing options.
The lower prices are part of that, but it’s also, the productivity and labor saving enhancements that you get if you are invested in ASIO and so on. So that’s what we know right now, like I said, this is sure to evolve over the course of the next few months.
But I’m very curious, Erick, to get your first impressions.
Erick: Well, Rich, as being the recovering MSP that I am, my perspective Primarily on what’s good for the partners. And I heard some things that give me, hope and optimism, right? Simplification, standardization consistent pricing, anything that allows the partner to simplify how they are paying their upstream vendors that aligns more closely with how they’re billing their customers.
Rich is always a welcome. Outcome here. So I am, I’m also curious to see what happens over the next several months as they put the finishing touches on what’s in these packages how they will allow partners to to, and I know I don’t want to use the word bundle, but how would they allow the partners to structure these things in a way.
That maybe gives them more flexibility and ultimately some savings on overall costs. Those are all positive things that I’m looking. Forward to at the end of the day, MSPs need all the help they can get from, their vendors and especially vendors who, whose products and services are using to run their entire businesses around.
So sounds like some welcome. News rich
Rich: to two quick things. I want to tack on there because one you reminded me of a moment ago, and I think it’s important to emphasize for the connect wise partners in the audience here is I’ve been deliberately using the word pricing options. To describe what’s coming later on in the year, and that is because they are optional.
And this was emphasized by Connectwise. They believe they’re going to have some real compelling value built into these different pricing options, but no one is going to be required to take advantage of these. Paying the way you’re paying today for what you were paying for today. That’s going to be something that you can do.
The other thing, and this gets to this whole idea they don’t like bundle, they don’t want to talk about bond because a bundle is just, we’re taking a bunch of different products and we’re letting you pay for it on one bill. What these new pricing options are when they show up in mid year, what they will be is the first step on a longer road.
And there’s no particular timeframe attached to this. My guess is this is a 2026, maybe even beyond a story. But at some point in the future, Erick we are no longer, MSPs are no longer going to talk to ConnectWise [00:10:00] about ConnectWise RMM, ConnectWise PSA IT boost. different products that are hosted on the ASIO platform.
ASIO is going to be the thing that ConnectWise offers. And it’s going to come with PSA functionality, RMM functionality, documentation, all these other things. You as an MSP will be able to light up these, different facets of ASIO, but essentially these different product identities are going to start going away.
And the thing that ConnectWise is going to go to market with is ASIO, which will no longer just be the foundation for all of their solutions. It will be. What they offer in the marketplace. And so don’t know how long it is before we get there, but that’s where they’re where they’re headed right now.
Erick: That’s really interesting, rich. So basically it’s the platform play where you’ll be able to light up different modules and different functionality and then be charged. Commensurately with whatever you’re using and or not using
Rich: and it’s very much in keeping with the theme. That has shown up in my writing a lot at channel hall at my blog, something we’ve talked about on this show, which is just the whole idea of the entire managed services world moving towards platforms and not just platforms as in an end to end set of products that are integrated, but Really a an integrated both technically and from a brand identity kind of standpoint platform.
And so we’ve certainly seen Kaseya be very aggressive along those lines and ConnectWise is headed in that that direction too, it appears to be where the whole industry is going. Let’s let’s get into your tip of the week, Erick. And I’m looking forward to hearing what you have to say about this.
Cause it. Directly addresses one of those topics that I hear about, have heard about from MSPs so often through the years, which is just getting clients to do those things that, you know, as their trusted advisor, they really need to be doing around cyber security.
Erick: Yeah. On paper, rich. It’s it sounds pretty logical and easy.
Oh, clients, you should be doing this to strengthen your cyber security posture and to prevent the threat. Of attacks as much as possible, right? On paper, it sounds so simple. Just have this strategic conversation with your clients fellow MSPs, and they’ll surely see the value in what you’re in, in, in what you’re delivering and sign right up, right?
Rich in reality. We know that seldom happens. We’ve all experienced as MSPs, having different types of clients. I like to call them the ABCs. And in the Cs there may be Ds and Fs in there as well. So you’ve got your A clients, B clients, C customers, and all the rest of all below Cs and trying to get everybody to say yes to anything that you offer is pretty much impossible, but especially rich.
It seems like when we’re talking about cybersecurity. And so I wanted to just, talk a little bit about ways to get your clients to say yes and to identify the clients that just not only will not say yes to enhance cyber security and making your jobs a lot more difficult MSPs and adding more risk to your business.
Clients that just I’ll say customers in this case, right? Should customers that just won’t in general adopt any new services or solutions and aren’t growing so that you’re actually creasing your profits with these clients, because there’s also the risk of not increasing the revenues from your existing clients, which that means that we’re delivering service.
Who more clients where we’re not generating additional profit when instead, maybe a decision to say maybe we should, ruin our garden as our friend, Carl Palachuk likes to say, and get rid of some of these CDNF customers making room for more of these A and B clients that are growing and then do see the value of your strategic guidance because you are now much more mature.
You’re delivering BCIO and maybe even BCSO services to get them on a path. To enforce their cybersecurity posture, or maybe even giving them some compliance as a service services as well. So real quickly, number one, enforce security policies at all levels. Even if you have clients that aren’t subscribing to MFA and enhanced cybersecurity, what can you enforce if they’re on, Microsoft.
Azure and you’re delivering some licensing support and things like that. Turn on as much of the cybersecurity controls as possible. But certainly offer a minimum suite or portfolio of services that you require every client to subscribe to in order to remain your client and specifically new clients that you bring on board, you could have a good, better, best.
Suite of services that incorporate your managed IT services along with the cyber security Services that you require them to have, at a minimum [00:15:00] level Number two offer cyber security awareness training. Now. This is something that a lot of vendors Offer you may already be subscribed to some of these services from your existing vendors or maybe you’re not deploying it To your existing clients.
Think about it this way, Rich, even if you can’t charge a client for that, just delivering some of this to existing clients may help prevent you from having to put fires out or react or drop what you’re doing with all your other A and B clients to save some of these C customers, you may consider the risk of that to be well worth you deploying it and signing these Customers up maybe, and my encouragement Rich is please find a way to charge them.
I like offering the ask forgiveness later rather than permission first approach when we’re raising our prices for clients. So maybe you send out a message to all your clients that says, Hey if you do not opt for one of our enhanced cyber security packages, good, better, best by this date, we’re automatically going to subscribe you to our minimum package.
Because that’s what we need you to do to remain our clients. We’ve talked about this on the show before rich as well. And then finally, I’m having conversations with lots of MSPs who rich aren’t yet ready to offer compliance as a service solutions, start looking at those types of services, because In the next three or four years, my bottom dollar bets that many MSPs will have to be delivering those types of services.
So get the jump and get the early the early mover advantage and start having those conversations with your clients now much more strategic, much more valuable to the business outcomes that your clients want. You to have conversations around. They’re not interested anymore around how many tickets you close and viruses you block and all this.
It’s all about how can you help them achieve their business vision with your assistance. So transcend beyond the technology solutions. And start delivering business solutions that they are really concerned about.
Rich: Yeah, this was not pre planned folks, but little does Erick know that our interview guest on next week’s episode of the show is Tim Golden from Compliance Scorecard.
So we will get into the compliance as a service topic a week from now, folks, be sure to tune into that that episode. You mentioned Carl Palachuk, our mutual friend. Brother Manny Palachuk has the same point of view, and they will both say you need to have a profile of the kind of end users or the kind of client that you do work with and want to work with.
And obviously they get a lot of pushback because it’s not easy. It’s easy to say it’s. It’s not easy to do to fire a client that you have right now, who is providing revenue or walk away from an opportunity with a potential client who doesn’t fit that profile. But for exactly the reasons you, you outlined so well there, Erick, you really do need to.
Create the discipline, muster the discipline to do that because these are things are just going to go wrong more often, even if it’s not a security issue. If they are not mature from a technology standpoint, up to your standards in general, stuff’s going to go wrong there more often. These are not going to be profitable clients for you, and they expose you in the course of exposing themselves to additional risks.
So that was something that just came to mind. And then last quick point I’ll make is, you were talking about security awareness training which I totally agree is one of those sort of baseline kind of things that you can do with clients. And it’s encouraging how many MSPs are offering that as a service right now.
But what you reminded me of is a an amusing story from some years back I was at what was then a CompTIA. Event today GTIA. And I was talking to a vendor executive who had just come out of a security council meeting where everyone was just shaking their head and saying, we wouldn’t need to be spending as an industry, billions and billions of dollars on all of this security technology.
If people just didn’t click the random link, don’t click the link. End of story. And so if you can’t get people, get, can’t get your clients to invest in the EDR or the MDR or the NFA, all, all the elements. Of even your core stack, if you do nothing else, but do some of that security awareness training so that they are less likely to click the link you’re going to make them safer and you’re going to eliminate some of the headaches that are sure to come one way or another anyway.
Agreed rich. Yep. With that folks, we’re going to take a quick break. When we come back to the other side, we’re going to be joined by Peter Bretton. He is the vice president of product strategy at Ninja one talking about platforms in the managed services world. I had a chance to interview one of his colleagues over there a few weeks ago.
They were talking about how Everything on their roadmap over there is almost exclusively informed by what they hear from [00:20:00] their MSP partners, which got me wondering what do you hear from MSP part? If you’ve got your ear to the ground like that, what kinds of things are you hearing from MSP right now?
Peter Breton is going to be with us in just a moment to share what it is that Ninja One is hearing from its partners these days, what it might mean for you. Stick around. We’re going to be right back
and welcome back to part two of this episode of the MSP chat podcast, our spotlight interview segment, or we are very pleased to be joined by Peter Breton. He is the vice president of product strategy at Ninja one company that many of you are familiar with. And that is very often in the news these days.
Peter, welcome to the show.
Peter: Thanks so much for having me, Rich. Thanks so much for having me, Erick. I’m super excited to be here and join you on MSP chat. Awesome. So
Rich: like I said I’m guessing the vast majority of our audience is familiar with Ninja one. A lot of them are probably new to you.
So just tell folks a little bit about yourself and then for those. Three or four people in the audience who don’t know much about Ninja One, tell them about the company.
Peter: Awesome, will do. Ninja One we like to say we automate the hardest parts of IT. And MSPs know that there is a, there are a lot of challenges in IT and in being an MSP.
And we’re really purpose built to help them succeed, both on the service delivery side. And on the service management side. So giving you all the tools you need to make your business better, more profitable and help you grow. As you said Pete Brenton from Ninja one, I’ve been here for about six years now leading the product strategy and product marketing team.
I’m really focused on understanding the pain points MSPs are facing. And helping make sure that we’re building a roadmap and a product and a platform that helps solve those challenges. So I love getting out there, talking to MSPs, understanding what you need and how we can help you solve for your your challenges.
Rich: Yeah, and you are the absolute perfect guy for the conversation that I wanted to have here because I did a little writing about you folks recently in my blog, Channelholic. And one of the things that really jumped out at me, I, I kept asking the person I was interviewing, What’s next on the roadmap?
What inspired this change? And so on and the answer over and over again was we listened very closely to our MSP partners and that guides everything that we do with the platform and the product, etc. And so that tells me that you guys have your finger on the pulse. what’s happening with MSPs.
So maybe let’s just start it out with something really general that from the big broad 10, 000 foot level, what are you hearing at Ninja One from MSPs right now about 2025 and how the market looks for them?
Peter: Yeah, I wish we had an hour because I think I could probably talk about this for an hour.
There’s a lot going on in the MSP industry and there’s, there are many ways to approach this question. One of them just at a super macro level is economic uncertainty, right? MSPs actually tend to do very well when there’s economic uncertainty. There’s an opportunity to grow, to add more service delivery options, to capture new clients, also to capture new talent.
We all know that hiring talent in the MSP space is incredibly difficult, but in a down economy, it can actually make it easier, make talent more available. And so economic uncertainty is a huge opportunity for MSPs. On top of that, you have a lot of consolidation going on, though, as well. It is those mature Successful MSPs that tend to capture more market share and grow during those down economies.
And so there’s a lot of consolidation, both in the MSP space and in the MSP vendor space. So on the MSP side, this is a great opportunity for all of you to grow, to find the right talent to really succeed more. On the vendor side, one of the things that’s happening though, is we’re seeing a loss of choice for MSPs.
And this is something that, that hits close to my heart. We’re builders. We believe in being good citizens in the MSP market. And what we’re seeing is a lot of vendors are getting pushed out of the market. There’s a lot of consolidation. The largest vendors are really competing on price rather than innovation.
And that puts MSPs at risk in the longterm. When you lose the opportunity to go and pick the best in breed product, because it’s no longer available or it’s not price competitive, that really is dangerous to the whole MSP ecosystem. And so that consolidation is good on one side for MSPs in that if you’re an MSP looking to sell your business, that’s a great opportunity for you.
Or if you’re an MSP looking to grow your business, it’s a great opportunity for you to. Consolidate and bring other business under you, but on the vendor side, it can be negative as well. So there is a give and take of that consolidation in the MSP space. And then lastly I think one of the big things is that there’s more specialization.
You’re seeing those broader MSPs. Some of them are doing very well, but some are really finding that there’s a niche where they can go and attack, whether it be becoming an MSSP, whether it be targeting individual industries or niches and using that [00:25:00] to really grow and become a specialized standout player in the space.
So I think those are some of the really big trends that we’re seeing. All of which, could change in six months in a year.
Erick: Peter, I, I want to key in on something you said. I think it was the first thought that you shared in response to Richard’s question. And it was about how MSPs tend to thrive when there’s economic uncertainty and the more mature MSPs seem to do, very well.
And I want to call back to COVID and the lockdowns. We know that Many MSPs suffered through that, but the more mature MSPs found opportunities. To really grow their businesses and take advantage of that and even make lots of headway into delivering more co managed it services to, historically averse internal it organizations from an MSC perspective, seeing them as competitors and things like that.
So now we’re way past the lockdowns, right? I think we just celebrated like the fifth year anniversary from right. So a real key milestone here. So my question to you is from what you’re hearing from your MSP partners and prospects what did they, how are they feeling about what the end users that they are marketing to?
And trying to sell to our spending based on what they’re sharing with you. And in what areas do you see that spend being focused in?
Peter: That’s a really good question. I want to acknowledge the five year thing. You just, you blew my mind there for a second. Cause it feels like a different lifetime, but.
To respond directly to your question, we actually did some surveying with not MSPs, but actually their customers to understand this exact question. And what we actually saw was in any time of economic uncertainty it budgets are at risk, right? What we saw was that. Budgets are generally flat or growing.
And there is more opportunity to capture business as an MSP because that budget didn’t just suddenly decline, right? But the requirements that they’re facing are that it teams that may co manage or may outsource to MSPs their requirements, the needs that they face are much greater.
So that budget only stretches so far and they need the hands and the expertise to Fulfill on all their requirements, right? And so what we’re seeing is a greater need for security, for compliance, for better service delivery. If you look at the long term vision for where IT is going, it’s actually refocusing from a technology view to an end user view, right?
MSPs have known this for a long time. The biggest KPI you have is, Hey, how much are end users complaining about the services that we’re delivering? It leaders are just catching onto this and it’s becoming a central focus for many it leaders to. Really lean into delivering a better end user experience.
And so what you’re seeing is that trickling back down to MSPs who’ve known about this forever. And you’re seeing more spend on end user experience and making sure they’re happy and productive and satisfied. Making sure that end users aren’t churning because IT is a friction point. That’s one piece.
The second is obviously security continues to grow. And users and their environments need to be secure. Their endpoints need to be secure and then compliance, particularly in the industries that MSP serve very well any regulated industry, FBI healthcare, et cetera, government, all of those you’re seeing compliance upticks all of this means that, if you have the basics down, you have exceptional service delivery. You have your end points and devices managed effectively. Then you’re really focused on those three things and user experience, security and compliance, because you have the first piece down, you got to have that first bit down. If you can impact all three of those or any two you’re in really good shape.
Rich: So you mentioned security and compliance there and in pretty much any research I come across, those always come up as particularly hot markets right now. If anyone makes the mistake of paying attention to media types like me, at least, we’re talking incessantly about AI as well.
What are you hearing at Ninja One from your MSPs about end user interest in demand for ai? What is the ai, the end user ar, ai market look like for MSPs right now?
Peter: That is a very good question. Ai, aI is a new tool and it’s phenomenal. It is, I use AI every day in my job. Most of the people I know use it on a regular basis.
What I will say is AI is just a tool and what we’re looking for is the outcome. And usually with AI, the outcome that you’re looking for is efficiency, either through better information and context and better decision making or through automation. Those are really the two paths to use AI really effectively to get the business outcomes that we care about.
What we are seeing is there are few groups of people. There are people who are all in. They want to do everything via AI. And [00:30:00] they’re on the leading edge and they’re, those are the people that really feel comfortable taking on more risk. And then there’s the bulk of people who are in the middle.
They know they have to adopt AI. There’s interest there, but they want to use it around context, information, and better decision making without giving the keys to AI. If you think of MSPs and the tools and the visibility and the access, they have a lot of MSPs and a lot of customers are scared to hand over keys to those tools to AI.
And then you have the laggards who look at AI and say, Hey, this is a fad. I don’t think that’s correct. But those people exist as well. And so there is a whole spectrum of willingness to adopt of interest and level of risk that they’re willing to take around AI. But I think the majority of the industry, both end users and and MSPs recognize that.
It’s here, it’s impactful, it can be incredibly impactful from an efficiency and automation perspective. And there’s just a spectrum of willingness to adopt and how much access you’re really willing to give
Erick: AI. Peter, as a former MSP, I remember way back in the days when vendors were basically delivering product services and solutions through an indirect sales channel, a partner reseller channel. Yeah. Bars and things like that. Where the pricing and the channel programs weren’t really MSP friendly, if you will fast forward to today, companies like Ninja one play a really prominent role in helping MSPs improve their operational efficiencies, dealing with operational challenges, which is great.
So we’ve evolved to an industry that really understands much, much better what MSPs need. In order to really grow together and go to market together and really focus on helping them improve their organizations. In other areas than just reselling licenses through them and things like that.
What are the biggest operational challenges that your partners are sharing with you and Ninja one?
Peter: So when I think about the biggest challenges that MSPs are facing operationally It really depends on the segment I’m talking to, if you’re talking to a relatively young MSP, the difference, the challenges they’re facing are very different than a large mature MSP.
We have MSPs who have one client and 50 endpoints all the way up to, thousands of clients and, a hundred thousand endpoints, whatever it may be, so you have the whole spectrum and the challenges are different on the smaller side. I think one of the biggest challenges is how do I, as an MSP leader shift from, What is usually a technological leader, someone who is amazing with technology, who went out, hung their shingle and started a business.
How do I pivot from that to a growth focused business leader? As I hire more technicians, build a real business around this. That’s one big challenge at the low end is shifting the mindset from being A technical person to a business person. And that’s a big shift. And it really is a sea change when it happens in an organization.
Really what they need is help and guidance on how to think like a business and how to be profitable and charge clients effectively and have difficult conversations and hire, right? That’s one set of challenges. Once you, and that could happen at any size that could be at a, a five tech company.
It could, that could still be happening at a 15, 20 tech MSP. Then you go on the other side, the really large MSPs, and they’re really thinking about the future of the it business and the managed services business, and they’re thinking about the impact of AI in their organization and how to really get the most Out of AI and automation, right?
How do I combine those two effectively without causing additional risk, but driving more profitability. People really talking about how they can reduce vendor risk. Do I want all of my eggs in one basket, or do I want to have the world’s best RMM from this company? And, but I don’t want to buy EDR from them because then all my eggs are in one basket.
Maybe I want. Ninja and the best in class edr like a sentinel one right instead of hey Ninja had an EDR, right? I don’t want Ninja EDR plus Ninja RMM because there’s risk there, right? So they’re thinking about reducing vendor risk. They’re thinking about How do I continue to templatize and standardize and operationalize so that I can scale?
So those are very different challenges and You see the whole spectrum
Rich: Yeah, so on the topic of too many eggs in one basket, potentially, or how many eggs is the right amount if we turn from the MSPs to the vendor side of the industry right now, one of the most important concepts out there right now is this idea of platform and this is true whether you’re talking about security or whether you’re talking about companies like Ninja One that are in more in that RMM kind of space.
Everybody is talking about, thinking about platforms. Defining it a little differently more or less [00:35:00] expansively in, in most cases. Pursuing it in a different way with a different strategy. How do you folks at NinjaOne think about platform and how does that reflect what you believe MSPs want and need?
Peter: I feel like I should I should thank you for that question because I would love to speak to that. So you’re right. Ninja One has been known as, a leading or the leading RMM for a long time. Like we’ve been the number one rated RMM on G2 for 20 something quarters. We know and understand and are, have grown incredibly successfully in that space.
And as we’ve done so we’ve built both an ecosystem of partnerships, And additional solutions to help MSPs grow. We really believe that the most value that we can offer is our RMM. And so that is a premium product in the market. It is the, we think the best RMM around, but we’ve also delivered things like a best in class enterprise level ticketing solution, a documentation solution, that’s a parody with all the other solutions in the market, a networking solution, a free warranty management product, all of these things Together to bring more value to MSPs.
And so when you look at what’s really difficult to build technologically workflow documentation product it’s just a web based GUI, right? It’s easier. So it shouldn’t be something that you’re paying out the nose for, right? So we invest the most in our core product that RMM, and then we built all of this ecosystem of products around it and ecosystem of partnerships.
To make sure that MSPs have all the tools they need in one place. Now that doesn’t mean they all have to be something that we built or that we, that you pay us for. We want to give you everything in one place, but allow you to have the choice. And I think that really differentiates us in this space. We’d love for you to use our documentation product, our, ticketing and billing product.
That’s great. If you don’t, we have integrations that let you use what you, what fits your business best. If you want to go out and use a third party warranty tracking product, great, or you can use ours for free, right? It’s about giving access to choice so that MSPs can decide what they want for their business without us forcing you to use it.
We want to win your business every day by building the best products. And if you decide that our product is the best, we would love to have you, if not, we want to give you access to every other amazing product in the MSP space, because we’ll never be able to solve every problem an MSP has. We want to give you choice and access and I think that’s what sets us apart.
Erick: We’ve sprinkled a little bit of commentary, Peter, so far around the topic of AI. Other vendors in the market how are building strategies or integrating AI into their products, into their platforms and things like that, what’s the roadmap look like for Ninja one in leveraging AI into your products and services?
Peter: Yeah. So we released our first AI based feature. Mid year last year on August, I think it’s called patch intelligence AI, and it allows you to look at what the market is saying about a patch and whether or not it’s going to impact your environment negatively, right? So before patches rolled out, we are going to evaluate that and say, Hey, is this likely to be safe?
Is this likely to cause problems in your environment? And if it is, we’re going to let you know, and therefore allow you to actually back away from. Rolling out that patch. So I’ll give you an example. Not too long ago, Microsoft rolled out a patch that upgraded servers to the next version, right?
There was licensing challenges around that. There were compatibility issues around that, and it wasn’t actually supposed to do what it did. Our patch intelligence AI caught that and actually saved a bunch of our customers the headache of rolling back to an earlier version of Windows Server and the negative impact that would have on their clients.
There was another one not too long ago that was causing blue screens in windows. What Azure VDI, I believe it was same problem. We identified that by Apache AI and said, Hey, this is going to cause problems in your environment. We had customers catch it because we notified them via patch AI.
And then they were able to avoid rolling that out and causing problems in their environment. That was step one. We’re iterating on that again to also include internal environmental details about patch failures, for example, to help make that even more robust. And then beyond that, we’re actively developing AI capabilities around our ticketing products around end user experience monitoring around root cause analysis.
And other things. So we have a product leader at Ninja who owns our AI capabilities. He is investing heavily and building out products and capabilities that make sense. For MSPs to use to go and make their teams more efficient, more effective, provide high context information for better decision making without putting your client environments at risk by giving, the keys of the kingdom to ai.
Rich: Last library [00:40:00] Peter, you folks at Ninja One raised a little over a quarter of a billion dollars in a funding round that valued you at, I believe, $1.9 billion. Pretty impressive number. Just over a year later, so very recently now you folks raised another 500 million and you’ve now been valued at 5 billion.
Jumping from 1. 9 to 5 billion in a year is pretty impressive. Now you’ve spent quite a bit of money recently acquiring DropSuite. A backup product, but you’ve still got a lot of money now at your disposal. I’m curious what you can tell us about your plans for this money. What does the growth roadmap, the growth horizon look like for NinjaOne now that you’re this well capitalized?
Peter: I don’t think it changes our strategy that much, we, there are some fundamental decisions that, that Ninja has made that we will continue to invest in and focus on that’s worked for us so far, we have. Great rapport with most of the MSP community. We’ve seen very rapid growth and we’re going to continue to invest where we have seen that that success.
So number one is we invest something between three and four times the industry average in support. There’s nothing worse than getting, a ticket to a vendor and not hearing back for two weeks. We want to make sure that just as MSP support their client and our clients expect them to have rapid turnaround and rapid support.
We are committed to providing that to our MSPs and we’ll continue to invest in our customer support and success. Number two is a public MSP driven roadmap. We are a product organization. We believe great products win, and we’re going to continue to invest in making sure our RMM is the leading RMM in the market, but so is our remote access product, our backup product, our mobile device management product.
We’re going to continue to make those the best products in the market to support MSPs and help them grow. Then we’re going to build additional new products that will be available to MSPs. I can’t dive into those, but again, we launched MDM last year. We’ve got a bunch of great stuff coming that you’ll hear about over the next six months to a year, and we’re going to continue to build those out and help MSPs grow and give.
More options to help them offer additional solutions to their customers. And then last but not least is Continuing to invest in the msp community, right? We have this great community. We have great support We have you know, xmsp is running our product team. We want to make sure that we’re investing in helping MSPs grow, like through our professional services org, etc.
So we want to make sure that we’re making our customers successful and that we’re building the best products that help MSPs win.
I can’t hear you, Erick. I’m sorry. I
Rich: think you’re muted.
Erick: Peter, there’s a difference between what we feel are traditional VARs versus MSPs. You have a program for VARs as well as some great partner resources for MSPs just like the ones you mentioned. But in many cases, they’re not really mutually exclusive, right?
So to what extent should MSPs be looking into your reseller program?
Peter: That’s a great question. We primarily partner with MSPs in a cell to model. We give our services to MSPs and we rely on them to Go and deliver those best in class services to their clients. We don’t need or want the Ninja name in front of your clients.
We want you to be the face of Ninja one, or we want you to be the face of your services to your clients. Our of our program helps. Enterprise it clients who are interested in an endpoint management solution by Ninja one through our VAR and channel program. There are opportunities for MSPs to sell through, to bring Ninja to their clients. Obviously the best case scenario is when MSPs are offering, value to their clients and delivering services on top of the Ninja one platform. But there are opportunities when that is not an option to bring Ninja one to your clients.
Erick: Yeah, I was just thinking about that co managed opportunity that now is a little bit more open to MSPs where they may have mid or enterprise clients where they’re just like, a part of the solution, not owning the entire infrastructure and cybersecurity role.
And maybe there’s a resale opportunity into those. Types of environments. And what you’re saying I’m taking is yes, there may be some opportunities, but we’re really focusing on making sure that you’re, we’re delivering services to MSPs. And if they have opportunities, great. But our focus is for the MSPs is really helping power their businesses.
Peter: Yeah. Again, the best case scenario, we’re a white label, the MSP centric platform. If there is a sell through opportunity, a lot of times you can do that with your brand, your logo, bringing your platform to that co managed environment. If there isn’t a co managed opportunity and there’s a sell through opportunity, that does exist.
But best case is, [00:45:00] the MSP is the face of the platform to their client.
Rich: Peter, really interesting conversation. Great to catch up with you, get your perspective on what’s happening in the industry out there. Also just catch up on, on Ninja One right now. It’s a name in the news a lot.
For folks in our audience out there who would like to get in touch with you, learn more about you, learn more about Ninja, where would you point them?
Peter: The face of our business is NinjaOne. com hop on there and check it out. Also, you can join our discord. It’s. Discord. gg slash ninja one. We have a great community.
I think it’s 10, 000 plus MSPs who are in there using the product, learning more about it, learning from each other and learning, not just about ninja, but about how to run a better MSP business hop in there as well. We’d love to have you.
Rich: Okay, fantastic. Peter Breton, Vice President Product Strategy at NinjaOne, thank you so much for joining us on the show.
Folks, Erick and I are going to take a quick break here. When we come back on the other side, we’ll share a few thoughts about this conversation we just had with Peter. Have a little fun, wrap up the show, stick around. We I’m going to be right back
and welcome back to part three of this episode of the MSP chat podcast. Very interesting conversation with Ninja one. We have spoken on the show in the past with the CEO, we’ve spoken with folks from other leading vendors in the industry. I just. FYI, I’m working on an interview at some point soon with the CEO of Enable.
So we hear from a lot of different vendors who play in that same space as Ninja One does, and it’s interesting to see the different strategies that they’re pursuing, what really jumps out about Ninja One. And this is something that I’ve, heard from them when I’ve done interviews for Channelholic before, and it came out loud and clear in this interview as well, is the North Star there really is what they hear from the MSP.
And. You every vendor will tell you, we are plugged into our M. S. P. S. We are all about what they need. But it really does feel a little bit different at Ninja one. When they, they will highlight every time they talk to you, how much they spend on support, how much they spend on community, this whole idea that they’re built Doing their platform strategy around choice, right?
So that if you want to get a lot of things from us, if that, helps you consolidate vendor relationships and save money, that’s good with us, if you want to plug and play and mix and match. That’s good too. Everything really does begin with the MSP to those folks. In a way, and I don’t want to make it sound like their competitors don’t do that, but it jumps out at me a little bit more every time I speak to an executive from Ninja One.
Erick: Yeah. And I think that sentiment is reflected in, their valuation and, what their backers are seeing about their forecasted growth. So they definitely seeing something uniquely valuable in that approach. And I think it has a lot to do with how they’re building this with the MSP being at the forerunner.
Like you say, it’s not that, other vendors aren’t doing this, but. It’s, it was interesting to hear how much voice they’re offering. Hey, you want to pick best in class. Great. If you want to use our stuff, great. We’re just here to make sure that we’re listening to what your needs are as like you said, rich, the North star.
Rich: Folks that leaves us with time for just one last thing on this episode of the show. And Erick, you and I, we’re both frequent flyers. We do a lot of traveling. We are also plugged into the news, so we know that there’s this whole kind of genre of news story coming up all the time about weird things people try to sneak past security at the airport.
And it’s So overdone that I tend to avoid it for purposes of this podcast. But recently I’ve come across two such stories that I just couldn’t resist. So first of all, it’s not uncommon for one of these TSA fail stories to involve someone trying to sneak drugs onto a plane.
This is the first time though, that I heard about somebody trying to sneak cocaine packets past security onto a plane under a toupee. This is insult to injury Erick, because guys who wear toupees typically don’t want folks to know they’re wearing a toupee. Imagine being caught wearing a toupee and with contraband under there.
You’re not only humiliated because of the toop, you’re going to jail. It’s just a bad day. And here’s another one because there is, there are a lot of these. TSA fails stories that involve an animal, somebody trying to sneak some banned species into or out of the country. And there was an incident like this involving a turtle, which In and of itself isn’t that shocking, but this was a turtle that somebody a a guy [00:50:00] tried to hide in his pants.
And Erick, some turtles, they snap. Does this sound like a wise plan to you?
Erick: The snapping turtle in the pants. Got him again. Let’s see if this works, Rich. The essay fails.
Rich: There you go. There you go. This is boy, this is turning into a theme. We had a, an episode title built around that recently. Folks, that is all the time we’ve got for you this week. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. We’re going to be back in a week’s time with another episode for you.
Until then, I will simply remind you, this is both an audio and a video podcast, which means that if you are listening to us right now, but you’d like to check us out on video, go to YouTube. Look up MSP chat. You’re going to find us there. Or if you are watching us on YouTube, but you’re into audio podcasts, go to Spotify, Google, Apple, wherever it is.
You get your audio podcasts. Cause you’re going to find us there too. And however you find us, wherever you find us, please subscribe, rate, review. It’s going to help other people like you find and enjoy the show. The show is produced by the great Russ Johns. It is. Edited by the great Riley Simpson. They are both part of the team with us here at Channel Mastered.
Podcasts are such a small part of what we do for our clients at Channel Mastered. You can get the complete picture at www. channelmastered. com. Channel Mastered has a sister organization called MSP Mastered. That is Erick working one to one with MSPs to help them grow and optimize their business, and you can learn about that.
at www. mspmastered. com. So once again, we thank you for joining us, folks. We’ll see you in a week. Until then, please remember, you can’t spell channel without M S P.
