Episode 63: There’s No Patch for Stupidity

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And trust us, there’s no stupidity in this episode. Just Erick and Rich talking about what New Charter Technologies buying a vendor that specializes in AI-based service desk optimization says about the future of managed services and three critical service desk KPIs every MSP should be tracking. Then they’re joined by Michael George, CEO of Syncro, for an insider’s look at the future of AI-powered management for MSPs. And finally, one last thing: Why a popular beer maker probably now wishes it had used AI to proofread a very embarrassing recent ad.

Discussed in this episode:

Press release: New Charter Technologies Acquires Orchestrate AI to Pioneer Next-Generation MSP Services

From Channelholic: Hot Take: New Charter Acquires Orchestrate AI Labs

Information about CISA’s Secure by Design program

Information about CISA’s Secure by Demand program

Coors Light Statement on Misspelled Ads

 

Transcript:

Rich: [00:00:00] And three, two, one, blast off, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of the MSP chat podcast. Your weekly visit with two talking heads, talking with you about the services, strategies, and success tips you need. To make it big in managed services, my name is Rich Freeman. I am Chief Analyst at Channelmastered, the organization responsible for this show.

I am joined once again side by side with our Chief Strategist at Channelmaster and your co host on the show, Erick Simpson. Erick, how you doing? I’m

Erick: doing really well. Right now, Rich, you want to let our listeners know why?

Rich: Yeah, so in podcast time folks, we haven’t missed a week. We’ve just been rolling along in, IRL, in real life.

Erick is just back from a week’s vacation. He was out skiing in Utah. We were just talking off the air. He did the right thing. The thing all of us should do on vacation. He did not work. He disconnected almost a hundred percent for a solid week there. And so we have not actually had a chance to speak in probably over a week at this point.

Welcome back.

Erick: Thanks, Rich. I feel energized and refreshed. A little bit differently than you might be feeling today. So what are you up to today while we’re recording this episode of the MSP chat podcast?

Rich: If there’s anything whatsoever different about the the video or the audio on my side, I am in my home away from home here in AmEricka, which is to say a hotel room someplace that I T conference right now, I’m in Orlando at the threat locker zero trust world event.

And actually, just a sneak preview for our audience, the next episode of this show a week from Friday the 21st, will focus on news that is expected at the conference tomorrow. I don’t know what they’re announcing tomorrow Threat Locker has made it clear they’ve got some product launches coming, and so we will talk about what those are tomorrow, but it’s already been an interesting show here, and yeah, and just Surprisingly large error.

We’ll talk more about this next week, but there’s supposedly 1500 people here, which is a lot more than I expected.

Erick: Can’t wait to have that discussion in Analysis Rich. Awesome.

Rich: Let’s dive right into our story of the week here, and this took place while you were away on the slopes, Erick.

It’s a very interesting story concerning new charter technologies. Now everybody in our audience I’m sure is thoroughly familiar with the phenomenon. Private equity money coming into the managed services space and fueling the growth of these MSP rollups companies that in various ways with various degrees of centralization and systemization are rolling up MSPs around the country.

New charter technologies. Is one of those roll offs PE backed roll ups. They have a model in which they allow their owners a lot more autonomy than some of the roundups out there, but it’s a pretty big company. We don’t know exactly what the aggregate top line for new charter looks like, but it’s well into the nine figures basically.

And last week they announced that they have acquired a company called. Orchestrate AI Labs now Orchestrate AI Labs, very young company, they’ve been operating mostly in stealth mode as far as I can tell, what they specialize in basically is the application of artificial intelligence to the optimization of service delivery, specifically For MSPs and so going forward now, new charter, which, let’s face it already has certain advantages in terms of the pricing power and operating efficiency, just by virtue of its scale and its capitalization, it’s going to have its own in house army of AI experts who are continuously applying the latest technologies to help the company’s constituent MSPs get more and more efficient, therefore more productive, therefore more profitable.

And this is something I talked about in a video I recorded for my blog, Channelholic shortly after this news broke. This news reminded me of a conversation I had once upon a time with John Pagliuca, the CEO of Enable. And I remember him telling me at some point, we were in this conversation about the future of managed services.

And he started talking about how, Rich, a few years from now, the MSP landscape is going to be divided between what he called the haves and the have nots. And the haves are going to be the MSPs out there who have, the 24 7 SOC and 24 7 NOC and a comprehensive lineup of premium services and the ability to deliver all of that without charging a whole lot more because of their efficiencies and economies of scale and so on.

And the have nots will not have these things. And they’re going to have to find other ways to compete with the halves. And this new charter deal, Erick, I think gives us a glimpse into something else that the [00:05:00] halves maybe are going to have down the road, which is this superior ability to take advantage of AI to grow efficiencies and get more productive and get more profitable.

As far as I know, all orchestrate AI labs does is help MSPs get more efficient. But of course, the other possibility is maybe. New charter will use some of this AI expertise to help MSPs deliver AI solutions to end users. That’s not something to my knowledge they’ve talked about yet, but even if they never do that, even if all this is about is getting better at service delivery in a serious AI powered way at new charter, it’s a significant thing and possibly a sign of things to come for the the managed services world.

Erick: What I like most about. That story rich is the continual resetting of the bar for MSPs, right? So there’s a couple of ways that, an MSP can improve their business efficiencies profitability, top line revenue, things like that. They can do it solo. They can, be acquired they can pick the right solution stack.

If they’re going solo, they can adopt some of these other things. But when you’re part of a larger group like new charter that is looking forward into the future for you. One of the big challenges that, I speak with MSPs about a lot, rich is, what their R and D process looks like.

Like, how do you look into the crystal ball? And identify the next emerging technology that you want to R and D, bring it into your lab, test it out, put it through its paces, price, write the marketing material, the sales process and all that and go out and deliver it. It’s so much easier for MSPs that are part of a larger group like new charter.

That is doing that for you. So you’re actually saving the cost of labor. You’re making less mistakes and you’re having these new emerging technologies brought down through the pipeline directly to you that you can now leverage for your existing clients. And there’s two ways to bring these new solutions into an organization, which is one is to acquire it.

And one is to build it. And new charter has taken the first step in acquiring this capability. For their partners, giving them a strategic event in the marketplace. It’s very interesting that they’ve chosen an AI solution or service to bring in as being a critical differentiator. I think it’s a a sign of things to come.

Rich: And one other thing that’s interesting here, and this I also raised briefly on my blog is, all the big RMPSA makers, specialist vendors like PIA, you’re seeing a lot of companies deliver AI productivity and service decks, kinds of technologies to MSPs right now. There would be no need for a company like orchestrate AI labs, which sort of specializes in actually putting those kinds of technologies to work.

If any of the stuff that’s out there right now coming from those vendors was ready for use a hundred percent good to go out of the box, we’re at a very early stage base. I think. Any of the companies I just named would admit as much, but we’re at a very early stage of this AI technology for MSPs reaching market and the existence of orchestrate AI labs and the fact that it makes good sense for new charter to buy that company just tells you this stuff still needs a little work, a little bit of help before it actually starts delivering results for MSPs.

We’ll see if that kind of improves over time.

Erick: Yeah, rich. And I think that, another consideration Is the intellectual property, the IP that new charter has just acquired through this new acquisition. And now that will increase potentially their valuation, right? All of these rollups at some point have a larger strategy, right?

To exit for the highest offer or valuation possible. And when you own the IP rather than subscribe to someone else’s IP. That definitely has an impact on valuation positively.

Rich: Absolutely true, and a really great point. Let’s move on to your tip of the week. And before you get started, Emma, I’ll just ask, did you pick this after seeing what I was going to be talking about at the top of the show, or did this just magically come together?

Erick: Actually, I picked it beforehand because it’s a subject of a webinar I’m doing this week. So I was dipping into another bucket and repurposing a conversation I’ll be having, in a broader sense through a webinar here. But these are three critical service desk KPIs that every MSP should be tracking, Rich.

And they are timeless. These do not shift. It’s like best practices are best practices. Among the dozens of [00:10:00] KPIs that a service manager in an MSP organization may want to track as they mature and grow these. Top three are the ones that I would prioritize the highest. And I’m not here to say like these are the only ones that I would track.

I have a whole list of my own. A background in the enterprise, building out service desks and call centers. There’s a lot of, there are a lot of metrics that you can measure, but I’m going to pick the top three for the MSPs in our audience today. So the first one, Rich, is Average resolution time.

So the average time it takes to resolve and end users issue from the first time a technician begins working on it. Now, some would argue rich it’s from the first time they report it. We could look at it both ways because that’s a different metric, the response time versus resolution time, but I’m going to say average resolution.

Now, why is this important? Rich, because end users and clients want their stuff working. And the faster that we resolve the issue, the better off for everyone. So what does it take to achieve that? You’ve got to have a standardized environment. that you’re working with. So the more mature MSPs, Rich, that’s standardized on the infrastructure and things like that, don’t have to worry about their technicians and engineers having to problem solve, for example, every firewall in existence, right?

Standardization is key. Training is key. Processes documented that everyone follows. All these things are key. And then also, Assigning tickets to the right resource or to the right cue so that we don’t have to escalate the ticket out in order to resolve it. So the sooner we can get our hands on it, the more prepared the team is that’s working the issue to resolve the issue without escalation or keys to improving average resolution time.

Second one. Is shared between a typical service desk and or a call center, right? So there’s two kinds of, service desks service delivery models that I’m really familiar with from the enterprise. One is the typical call center where people call in, they speak to someone immediately think Microsoft support, right?

You’re going to talk to somebody. They’re going to triage it a little bit. They’re going to get you to the right person. You’re not going to wait for a call back or wait for a ticket to be escalated and assigned. And you’re going to work with somebody right there. First contact resolution rate also applies to help desk.

So as soon as the technician begins working the issue, they may reach out to the end user or the end customer and make sure that they can resolve that ticket without having it escalated or come back to it. I want to close the ticket while I’m working the ticket. So what do we need for that? Again, documented processes.

We need to be trained on the service or solution. That we are working on. We want to make sure that our teams have access to all the resources they need to solve that issue. And again, going back to dispatching and assigning the ticket to the appropriate resource or queue is critical. We don’t want to assign level 2 tickets to level 1 engineers or queues.

That’s just going to create An escalation at some point. The third one, Rich, is service level agreement compliance rate. What percentage of the time are we meeting or exceeding our SLAs to our clients? And a bonus tip is don’t have one SLA for everything, right? You can’t scale that way.

Everything becomes the same priority. You can’t create distinction and differentiation and you can’t become more profitable and scale more profitably if everything is a top priority. So number one, have different SLAs for different types of agreements, right? You’re not going to have the same SLA or a disaster recovery situation or a cybersecurity.

Resolution than you would for someone can’t print, right? So different SLAs bundling and tearing each successively higher price tier or bundle of services that you deliver to your clients should have an increasingly better SLA. And this is how you can upsell them later when they want faster response.

They’re paying for what they get gives you an opportunity to sell better. First of all, set realistic SLAs. You cannot have an SLA, Rich, that is better than a third party or outsourced or vendor that is supporting that solution with you. For instance, I can’t have a better SLA than, let’s say, Microsoft has to resolve an M365 issue or an Azure issue.

I’m beholden to that. Now, if I’m in control, [00:15:00] And I have all the tools like we’ve just talked about in the previous two tips, Rich. Then I manage the SLA and I set a realistic SLA. But just watch out for when you have to reach out and escalate or involve a third party resource, a vendor, or someone else, strategic partner, to help you solve that ticket.

Automate your ticket routing. I don’t like leaving it up to the technicians themselves to cherry pick tickets because again, if it’s, getting close to five o’clock, sometimes I wanna just close a couple of easy tickets rather than ones that are more higher priority, potentially allowing those tickets to slip out of their SLA compliance window.

And then finally, establish really consistent es escalation procedures. So when a ticket is escalated to a higher level and it happens, right? We’re trying to prevent that from happening by assigning these tickets to the right resource initially or the right cue. But sometimes what we think is the root cause of something is something completely different and has to be escalated out, make sure that when we are documenting our SLA compliance and reporting that when a ticket is being escalated to another resource, or it’s waiting on a client or waiting on a vendor.

That it doesn’t count against our SLA compliance rate, because that’s something that is outside of our control, rich. So meaty stuff three prioritized KPIs or things we should be measuring. And if we do these things properly, we’ll have more satisfied clients. We’ll probably be more efficient and more profitable, and we’ll have greater morale within the team because we know that we’re assigning the tickets to the appropriate resource that can feel like they’re killing it.

By completing these issues. Either in the same call or not having to escalate it out. So there you go.

Rich: Yeah. And a few thoughts on this, Erick, first of all, I’ll just say you, you discuss this topic regularly with MSPs. I discuss somewhat similar topics regularly with vendors, and I will just say to the MSPs in our audience.

Your favorite vendors with respect to support are all tracking the same KPIs fanatically. Now they tend to have a longer list of KPIs that they’re looking as well. And I’m sure there are plenty of MSPs out there with more than three that they’re tracking too, but this is not some specialized set.

And anyone who takes. Customer service and satisfaction seriously needs to be looking at these metrics that you cite there, Erick. And, here I am at this NetLocker event and the MSPs I talked to with this event. There’s a reason there are so many people at this show.

ThreatLocker is very popular in the MSP community right now. And one reason for that, people pretty consistently tell me is they are very quick in terms of getting back to people when there is some sort of holdup or support issue. And you better believe they can tell you, to the second, to the minute, how long they’re, average response time what their first contact resolution time looks like. This is something that the best in the business are serious about, and that means you need to be as well. And I guess that’s the other thing that I would just say. I believe it’s the great business writer, Peter Drucker, who once said, You can’t manage what you don’t measure.

If there is anyone in the audience here right now who does not have KPIs around their service desk right now this is a great opportunity and three great suggestions for where to get started. You need to be tracking these metrics, similar metrics. You need to know how effectively your service Delivery system is functioning and and you need to do it in, if not real than the near real time, there are plenty of tools out there, bright gauge or what have you that can help you with this kind of thing.

But again, if you want to be a best in class MSP, it’s not, you need to have KPIs around service delivery. And these are three great ones to start with. Okay, we are going to take a quick break. When we come back on the other side, another one of our superstar guest interviews are, we are about to be joined by Michael George.

Some of you in the audience here might remember when he was the CEO of Continuum. Continuum was a big name in RMNPSA. It was acquired by ConnectWise. Michael was off doing a number of things until relatively recently when he became CEO of Synchro. And so we’re going to talk with Michael after the break about his new job and about Synchro, about his thoughts on AI and the managed services world, something we’ve been talking about already on this show.

It’s all coming your way in a moment. Stick around folks, We’ll be right back

and welcome back to part two of this episode of the MSP chat podcast or spotlight interview segment, where we are very pleased to be joined by the CEO of Synchro. He is Michael George. Michael, welcome to the show.

Micheal: Rich, thank you very much for having me. Really [00:20:00] appreciate it.

Rich: We have known each other for a while for the benefit of folks in the audience who are new to you or new to Synchro tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do and a little bit about Synchro.

Micheal: Sure, I’d be delighted to. That’s quite right, Rich, you and I have known each other for, much of our own respective journeys in this industry. I was the founder of Continuum back in 2011 and over an eight year period. With a extraordinary team, we built a category leader clearly and and so it was then acquired by Tomo Bravo, who merged it with ConnectWise wasn’t exactly the path we had in mind, but that was Tomo Bravo’s plan.

And so now it’s, again, a integral part of the connect wise platform, but during its independent journey, we really were transformational as you recall, really in providing a labor arbitrage model that enabled MSPs to have a much lower cost of service delivery. And we also, bought on and launched a backup product that became a great leader.

But the biggest thing is in. 2016 we did a bet the company strategy on security and we were the first company Through an acquisition through the build out of a SOC operation and a partnership with Sentinel one had, the first, and then ultimately the most successful security offering in the MSP market space and something I’m super proud of for having accomplished that it was a great journey for me.

Was not my choice to not be the leader of the combined entities of ConnectWise and Continuum. So I stepped out for a period of time, but then Synchro was a place that I was invited to be maybe a board member of and and so I spent a lot of time with the company and we came out with a really, an incredible strategy for the business.

Particularly with the onset of AI technology, that was really, it’s been around for a long time, but really in its newest incarnation became a much more usable technology and applied to the MSP space really gave us the same opportunity of labor arbitrage, if you will, that continuum did. So we’re applying that same strategy here, much, much greater tech efficiency.

Lower cost of operation but doing so using technology instead of people. So I’ve been delighted to be the CEO now for just over a year.

Rich: Yeah you kind of motion toward the first thing I wanted to ask you about a moment there was one of the things that I find when I interview you and your leaders at Synchro that I find interesting and useful is you folks will make it a point to distinguish between AI and generative AI.

So talk a little bit about why that distinction matters to you and how that distinction kind of factors into your thinking there.

Micheal: They’re two, different, they’re two different sort of versions of the technology and I, rather than just dealing purely with the nuances of it, I actually even want to step away a little bit rich, if you don’t mind from, AI is the main.

Theme here as much as the fact that it is an enabling technology, and provide some key strategic business levers for MSP. And that’s all. And I’ve even, pulled away a little bit. Not from using the term AI so much as focusing more on the fact that it delivers a level of automation.

That really is unfounded in the industry before and really, all really MSP should care about is, the tech efficiency and the improvement and the quality of their own work to enable them to, again, grow faster and do so far more profitably. So I really only like to think about it in the context of an enabling technology and care a lot less about the nuances of it.

There, there’s new things going on in DeepSeek. If you’re interested in talking about that, I’m happy to. It’s certainly in the headlines, yesterday and today. And I think there’s some important attributes about it. That the MSP market needs to be keenly aware of perhaps more, more important than, the distinction between generative AI and traditional AI but it’s your show.

So take it away.

Erick: That’s exactly my next question, Michael, but I’m going to tweak it a little bit. So being a recovering MSP, as I am, I definitely benefited from outsourcing in the early days to support our back office technicians, back in those days, I’m aging myself, it was the early 2000s.

We didn’t have the today’s Brained and familiar outsourced type [00:25:00] of technical talent. There was still a language barrier, a language gap today that’s been solved this generation of folks, is very adept and have really great communication skills. They’ve grown up, watching.

AmErickan TV and being involved in social media and all that. So we don’t really have that gap now. But my question is more around how you see the ability to leverage. AI along with some outsource type of resources to change the dynamic for MSPs today. Obviously talent is our costliest expense, labor costs and things like that.

So is there a magic formula Michael, in your mind that says, okay, we think that AI can help whether it’s pre generative or non generative AI or we think it can help in these ways. With maybe some back office stuff for MSPs, maybe some customer service stuff, but then we balance that with some outsourced labor.

And then we have maybe our traditional higher level technicians, that are the dragon slayers. And does that help with our economics? In delivering service, how would you express that?

Micheal: Yeah, first of all, Erick, I think you’re, the most important thing is you’re on the right topic.

And I just want to make sure that I address that first because There’s, there are companies out there, and I’ll just say it, Kaseya has driven into the market this idea that reducing the cost of the tool by some sort of de minimis amount is really going to create highly profitable MSPs.

He’s going after the right thing, which is to enable them to be profitable. But he’s doing it, or they’re doing it the wrong way. And of course, others are chasing them, right? It’s a race to the bottom around the economics of the tool. I think it’s inconsequential. I think it’s on the margin.

And in fact, if you’re worried about your tools cost, you have a whole different set of problems. If you look at your P& L, it’s all about the labor. So to your point, and you said you were dating yourself, but not by much. It has been a skills gap problem. It continues to be a skills gap problem.

And that is the watchword of the industry. Is, we are, cannot keep pace with the level of innovation, in particular around bad, bad, actors and threat, actors in this market, cybersecurity is the issue. So let’s stay on the key topics that matter most. And to your point, outsourcing, either back office, some other functions.

But now perhaps introducing a level of AI and automation into the equation is really our focus. And again, as we talked about Continuum did not have necessarily the AI tools that are available today. We did it with people and we did it, I think in an extraordinary way. Today, and what Synchro is focused on, is enabling MSPs to outsource work, but to technology, not to people.

We’re not using low cost, delivery centers. We are using, AI technologies to automate a lot of the rote, mundane functions. That MSPs are fraught with, every day in and out. I, we think about it in really three key areas. Number one, reducing service delivery costs.

How can we use this as a, cost reducing driver around saving technicians time and creating a high degree of efficiency. Number two is improving service delivery, right? Sort of the quality and the caliber and the and the proficiency of the work they’re delivering.

And number three is that enables the MSP to get closer to their customers. Now they’re using their people time, their labor time to a whole different level of engagement, with the customer. And that’s what’s going to differentiate people today is Being a strategic partner, being a a part time CISO and being a strategic partner to their end customers is what’s going to matter.

All of the other things are, have been commoditized at this point that you can’t differentiate yourself. In the purity of the tech side of it. So anyway I want to make sure I answered your question. I’m not dismissing the value of some elements of outsourcing, to low cost regions, but I will just tell you Synchro’s mission is to do essentially what we did at Continuum.

But do so through technology, through AI and automation.

Rich: So theoretically, the ultimate way to use AI as a labor arbitrage tool and maximize technician productivity and MSP [00:30:00] efficiency and so on, is to hand tasks over completely to the AI. Set of partly and, work with it collaboratively.

There. There’s a spectrum of opinion out there right now among companies like Syn Synchro about how autonomous AI should be day-to-day for an MFP. What I, what’s your thinking about that?

Micheal: Yeah and I think Rich, you raised an important point, which is. And we’re reminded of of the words, and the wisdom of many, sometimes it’s like trust, but verify you don’t necessarily have to turn 100 percent of things.

over, to AI and let it go, you can and using the Microsoft language of co pilot autopilot, there are some things that I think once the technician uses some level of AI and they trust, they trust, but verify, trust, but verify, and you do it enough times and you realize, wow, like we’re now at a hundred percent accuracy.

I’m going to turn this over and to that function, like I’ve been, I tweaked it, I tuned it, and now I trust it, and now I’m going to let it go on autopilot, if you will, and I’m just using, again, some of the Microsoft language around it, but I think it’s quite applicable, candidly so I think we’re going to see more and more of that where, we’re sitting in the jump seat and we’re working as a technician, we’re working alongside of, The models and the LLMs and the tools and everything else, but then once we get to a point where it’s wow, like I’ve now seen everything in the middle, I’ve seen all the edge cases and this is good enough and I’ve tweaked it, I’ve been able to influence it and now I feel like it’s going to hit 100 percent then I’m going to turn it over.

Really to a full AI function. It also depends on what the category is, candidly, right? Some things, not all things are equal, right? If I’ve got simple alerting and everything else and, there’s no risk, there’s a low risk factor. Then that’s one thing if it’s a higher risk factor, why I might want to check in, and still have an opportunity to verify.

I will say that the, as I said before, it’s a security first industry today, number one. And number two, I would also say that, obviously there’s compliance and regulatory and there’s a whole bunch of things around liability and everything else that people need to pay attention to. But I also consider this a risk management market today.

MSPs need to think about, their engagement with their customer, their end customer, is to be all about, and not just risk management, but security risk management. And the more that they can do proactively, preemptively to reduce, if not eliminate, the probability of incident, then you’re putting your economics, you first of all, you spend a whole lot less money doing it that way and put your economics up front in that preventative area because once an incident happens, the economics change exponentially and that you’re in a whole new level.

You’re, you’re in a whole different spectrum of activity, where you detect, you’ve got to respond, you’ve got to isolate, you’ve got to remediate and all the other things. So again, the more energy put as we’re doing in our tooling and everything we’re doing is really around prevention.

And that’s where, risk, security risk mitigation is best focused and spent.

Erick: Michael, you’re, you understand very well MSPs are very risk averse, right? But in, in general we, and I’m using, we as MSPs, like I’m a recovering MSP, but I like to say, hey, we as MSPs taking that position.

We’re very risk averse. And as that means that we are very careful about leveraging the concept that you shared a couple of times is trust, but verify, right? So in, in an MSPs decision making process, if they were to, want to explore. agentic AI and introduce it into their business model.

What are the longterm implications you brought up? Regulatory compliance, cybersecurity and things like that, what should MSPs be considering from longterm implications, both kind of managing risk. But also exploiting the value and benefit of adopting,

Micheal: that’s a, that is, that’s it’s a well seeded question.

That requires a lot to respond in, but I’ll try to be brief and at least touch on the categories, Erick, and then we can dig in anywhere you’d but it’s, there’s a very comprehensive way to answer [00:35:00] that. And again, I’m going to, I’m going to just focus on the key elements of it.

But you’re absolutely right. And by the way, although I don’t necessarily suggest Risk aversion I would say risk, be risk aware because the liability of security is falling now on the shoulders of executives and then therefore, their agents their CIOs and CISOs. We, we had two years ago for the very first time in the case with Uber.

Now again, it’s a large enterprise but we had a situation where a CISO got sentenced to prison. Think about that. As there’s a whole nother level of, um, responsibility and then therefore liability. In the way that these things are being dealt with now again, regulatory and compliance things hasn’t gotten into the S and B, to the way it’s held, the fortune, accountable for it.

But don’t be surprised if it’s moving in that direction and for good reason, right? We’re protecting our economy. The small to medium business market is the growth engine of our economy. It represents, nearly 47%. Of the U. S. Economy today. It’s it’s an important sector, to be protecting.

There’s a lot around frankly, both setting expectations with the customer. Anytime an MSP goes in and says, I can guarantee you, I will make a hundred, you a hundred percent secure is a very dangerous and an inappropriate statement to make because nobody is a hundred percent safe and secure.

You, you can’t even control your own employees from doing stupid things, right? And as I like to say, there is no patch for stupidity. Training and education of your employment, right? What MSP can really take full responsibility and control for the employees of their customers? This is not possible. It’s a shared responsibility.

It’s a team sport. And you need to engage, the entire organization. Many times, your own trading partners think about APIs and other things that we do on an exchange basis. In small businesses today where, you’re really depending on your digital trading partner to also be smart and safe and secure.

So again it’s a place fraught with, challenges. So a lot of it’s like setting expectation, your level of engagement with your end customer. I’m speaking in the, like you said you’re recovering MSB. I’m speaking in the voice of an MSB, be smart and make sure that you.

You hold your customer accountable and let them know that we are all responsible, for security. So again, upfront, making sure, we, we do that number one number two, be wise about, I saw a certain amount of layering in the growth of the security market since we started it.

We were really pretty simple. We acquired Carver. We had three SOC operations and we partnered with Sentinel 1. Today, I look at the tech stacks and some of these MSPs. And they’re like, doing a little bit of this, but then a little bit of that, and they’ve gotten oversold, perhaps, on what different security things provide what level of service.

And anytime you have more than one things, you have the propensity to have some, either you’re trying to layer and everything else, and anytime you have any more than one, you basically have a gap. And anytime you have a gap in your, security posture with tooling and division of labor and everything else.

You’re just exposing yourself even further. So the other watch, the other thing, speaking again as an MSP, that I’d be super cautious about is not coming up with a really big, complex tech stack, but really a simplified one. And the simpler you can make it, the fewer, the fewer tools you can use to accomplish the same objective.

As long as you have the right ones. The better off you are.

Rich: Michael you were talking before about the connection between AI and security risk mitigation. And you’ve got me intrigued because in prior interviews that we’ve done for my blog channel, you’ve hinted at something.

Along the lines of that security and AI that’s in the works may still be too early to talk about it, but I got to ask, can you speak to where you see Synchro going in that area? What’s in the vision on the roadmap, et cetera. I,

Micheal: You always have a great memory. I know everything we ever get a chance to talk about.

I know I’m, I’ll be asked or inquired again. Good for you. It’s one of [00:40:00] your many great journalistic strengths Rich. You’re quite right. And in fact, in late April of this year. We are going public and going to market with what will be the most important security offering in the market.

And and I don’t want to get too far ahead of ourselves, but you’ve already heard me talk about, being prophylactic, being preventative focusing on security risk mitigation, simplification of stack. And so forth. And if you look, today at what the full cycle of security looks like, it really involves if you take a, if you take a, if you take an MSP platform today from vendors.

Where you’ve got an RMM tool you have a backup tool and you have security, right? Those are the three corners on the service delivery side for an MSP. And what you’ll see from us in our release and our announcement and our product release late April is gonna be the convergence of those things.

To again, simplify and unify the way security is delivered in the market. And it is completely unique and orthogonal to the way people have been going at this market. As I said, if you look today, in the MSP stack world, it’s this amalgamation of all these third party tools that MSPs have been really challenged to go and bring in to, to have a, to have a comprehensive offering.

And we’re going in the opposite direction and simplifying and unifying those functions in a way and doing it in an intervention model that that will be by far the most and again, you introduce AI now in the security equation in particular, that becomes even more important to do anomaly detection and all of the things that, AI has the capability of doing far better, by the way, than human beings.

You go and apply that into this equation and you have by far the most powerful security first platform in the market. And so we will be happy to speak more about it as we get closer to it, but it’ll be a late April product launch from us with a number of our. MSP partners and our internal IT customers using it.

Already and getting great benefit from it. More to come.

Erick: Michael and Rich, did we just hear that here first on the MSP Chat podcast? You did. Dread breaking news. Thank you. for sharing.

Micheal: You did indeed. That is the first. Time that date and focus and so forth has been has been released from us, so I’m happy to share it here with you and with your audience.

Erick: Thank you for sharing Michael big news. So I want to go back to a little bit of the conversation that we were having and you when you were talking a little bit, Michael about. Reducing I’m going to use the word sprawl, right? This is the word that I like to use when I look at work with MSPs that are, just have all of these products in their solution portfolio.

And you mentioned that can be risky, right? It can be risky because I might leave a gap. I think it can also be risky from. Having overlapping, um, features in some of these platforms, because we like this really cool feature, it these other things really overlap with other things that we’re doing.

So it sounds to me like you’re really trying to consolidate and simplify and reduce that technical sprawl or MSPs. So my question is really about how MSP should think about synchro fitting in with their other product services and solutions. We had Fred Bacola on the podcast an episode or two ago, and he.

Expanded on the vision that Kaseya has to reduce overall costs for their partners. How should MSPs look at what you’re trying to do and evaluate their current sprawl and think about how to include it, incorporate it so that it can get to that ideal that you’re sharing for your vision about giving MSPs this higher level of efficiency.

A replacing human labor, whether that’s, in house labor or outsourced labor in reducing that overall cost. Sure. I hope that wasn’t a confusing question, but

Micheal: It was a two, if not three part question, but it wasn’t [00:45:00] confusing. In fact, I think it’s an important one to address. First of all I commend Fred for at least being focused on in his language anyway.

Helping MSPs to become more profitable. But I have been personally, I’ve spoken to him about this directly And I’ve been clear about it in the market. I just think he was fixing the wrong problem, because all he was doing was, all Kaseya’s done is just reduce the cost of the tool, which should be the smallest part.

Look at the P& L of an MSP. If your tools are the largest part of your cost, you’ve got a whole different set of problems. Again, you’re reducing something that should be a cost that’s on the margin. Of your, of your P and L. And if any company is guilty of creating a sprawl, cause say they don’t have one of everything.

They’ve got two and three of everything. They’re the epitome of. This, quilt of this patchwork amalgamation of all of these different things, right? They’re a technology. They’re not even a technology platform. They’re this private equity rollup of, the land of the misfit toys.

It’s not, doesn’t make any sense at all. And trying to rationalize that. For the next CEO coming in, there’s going to be a big challenge. Candidly having said that to answer your, the first part of your question back to how is Synchro doing it is really, it’s very simple. You could think about it.

And I think this is a great sort of analog from the consumer world. You talked about dating yourself, but it wasn’t that long ago, in the early 2000s. I spent a lot of time as a runner. People run, they ride bikes, it doesn’t matter. You walk or just be, what did you have?

You had a device that you listened to music on. You had a phone, you had all of these different things. You had a watch and everything else. And what Apple did. To the consumer experience is what Synchro is doing to the MSP experience, and we’re taking all those things, now, and, we don’t have five or six different devices with us.

We have one and that one device, right? The beauty of what Apple did as a company is they brought, the GPS, we had companies like TomTom and Garmin, that had GPSs. Now, this has got a GPS on it. This has got a phone on it. This has got my music on it. This has got my email, right?

This is the, a unified platform that brought all of those experiences together, but also integrated them. In such a beautiful way, and the beauty comes in two forms. One is, it’s a completely unified experience. When I see an application, when I click on a button the way I pay for it, it gets downloaded, it gets integrated with all of the other elements that it needs to communicate with, instantly.

And so that’s number one, and so we are bringing that capability. To this market, you’re not sitting there going, do I have an API and don’t I, and are we connected? Are you partners? All that noise is gone. It’s a completely unified experience, an automagically unified experience, number one. And number two is we have focused on simplicity and the beauty of Apple, in my opinion, from a consumer perspective, It isn’t in the complexity of it, which is where the market is today and where all these vendor platforms are today because they acquired this, all this craziness is we are in the business of simplification and so unification, simplification of that platform.

So if you can do that and you can bring that to market, which is really what we’ve been focused on, maniacally focused on doing. Then you have a completely different equation for the MSP now to engage with this product for the technicians to sit there and be able to have all of this in a simple, what used to take three or four clicks.

Or used to require me to go from this end point to that end point to this person’s laptop to this person’s mobile device to but be able to do that in a completely unified way and in a simplified way is what we are bringing to market. So that is the. I think the most appropriate analog and that is what this market should expect from Synchro.

Rich: It was quite an experience for me to hear you make that analog, Michael, because I used it as well. I wrote a whole thing for the blog coming out of the ConnectWise IT Nation Connect event last November about ASIO the ConnectWise platform. As the [00:50:00] Apple iPhone of managed services and what made the metaphor seem apt for them at the time.

Is how heavily invested in ecosystem they are. So in distinction to Kaseya, which they want to sell you everything you use, it all comes from them and they would argue that because they own all the source code, it integrates, better than is possible anywhere else. Connectwise has an ecosystem it’s invested in.

It has a platform that kind of unifies everything and provides a unified experience. The way Apple and the iPhone do for all the app makers that you get through the phone. But they’re delivering a lot of what, you do ConnectWise is, Apple is, through third parties. What’s your take at Synchro, about how much of what MSPs, in the service of simplicity, And supplying the stack, how much of what MSPs need to get their job done, do you want them to get from Synchro and how heavily invested are you in ecosystem and building that into your platform?

Micheal: You’re too good of of a journalist here. So I’m gonna politely I’ll answer your question to the extent. That I should at this point, I don’t like to get too far ahead. We like to under promise and over deliver. And I don’t want to get in the state of over promising something so far out from the release.

So I’m going to avoid the temptation. I will say that, we too believe that you don’t need to put all your eggs or get all your eggs from one basket. And we do think that some diversity in solution is important and giving, giving our MSPs choice to be able to bring their own or bring something that they believe is best in class is something that we want to enable.

And so we are going to do that. But I think that you’ll find is that and again, I, I want to be cautious. I’ll give you a little bit of a teaser to say that, for nearly 300, 000 years humankind believed that the universe revolved around the earth. It was a geocentric view, and it wasn’t until, you know, 1610 when Galileo put together, he was a scientist that built magnification so he could see things, magnified and it wasn’t until he turned that up to the sky that he became world first astronomer and realized and was able to prove not just mathematically what others had, but actually prove that we live in a heliocentric universe and that the universe revolved around the sun.

And I will just tell you, and no more than this, that Kaseya, ConnectWise, Enable, Ninja, all these companies are very geocentric in their view of the world. Even in a, in the ecosystem language that you used ConnectWise still needs to be the center of attention. They provided toll booths, so vendors have to pay to get in that ecosystem.

It’s not exactly the, land of the free and the home of the brave, that they profess it to be. So watch out when, as on the consumer side of it, don’t think they’re not, participating in the economics of that. And other things. But having said that you can just anticipate that we we have really refocused where the heliocentric worlds that the it industry in general, not just the SP market, but the entire IT gen industry in the small to medium business market is we’re going to help them refocus on how the universe of IT services.

Is really exists and has really been formed and. It’ll be, as I said, a complete paradigm shift in this industry. This is going to be the most transformational thing since the beginning of the managed services industry. When it went from, a break fix industry into a remote managed services industry, this will be as transformational a shift as that was.

So stay tuned more to come.

Erick: Michael, I want to again, just compare notes with you from an MSPs perspective, right? So we know that security is the focus of where you’re heading. And we know that MSPs, some MSPs are struggling. With making that strategic shift from a business perspective, maybe [00:55:00] strategically to realize that this is the largest opportunity for their existing customers and their prospects.

If this is a security first type of opportunity here. So what would you say to MSPs? That are, looking at their opportunities with existing clients or prospects and thinking of security still is just an add on to their existing stack and their existing marketing and sales approach.

And how would you guide them differently to leverage not only what you’re delivering at Synchro, but in general, helping, these. The largest segment of business that they serve, right? The SMB market. What are your thoughts? Yeah.

Micheal: So I was saying this back in 2016, eight years ago, and I’ll I’ll say it again because it’s become more right than wrong.

Even though at the time. I was in the, I was a outlier and in, in the, in, in my journey here, but the idea of an MSP and an MSSP. Is going to converge and the traditional concept of an MSP may not completely go away. It won’t be an extinct species, but it’ll be as antiquated and immaterial to the market as the traditional break fix providers have.

There is still today in first world economies, hard to believe, but there still are break fix kinds of companies. They are a very small portion of the market, and they’re very much, really just lifestyle kinds of companies, and there’s a world for that, and we’re happy for those people, and, and, but in the same way, the MSP is going to have to be In MSSP, remember, think about what the problem is in the minds of the small to medium business owner.

They care about, right today, they wake up in the morning and it’s wow, if I get hit I’ll tell you a story and this is. Something that happened to me, six or eight years ago, I’ll never forget. I was, I had a, I have a dentist who is, I don’t know, modern. I wouldn’t even call him progressive, but he’s certainly modern in the tools and technologies that he uses.

And I asked him simply, as a dentist, right? He’s not a technician. He’s not in the IT world. And I said to him, I said, Jeff, tell me how important is who does your IT services and how important is it to you? And he said to me, he said, Michael, he said, maybe a lot of other businesses can, basically endure through, let’s say a cyber attack, a ransomware attack or something like that today.

But he said, we could not withstand it. We could not afford it. He said if some other business is under attack and maybe they can conduct some level of business, but you understand that as a cause, he said, I’m a nine chair dentist office here. And if you came to the door, if I had, if I got hit by a ransomware attack or if I got shut down here for a day, let’s call it even the day would be, fortunate if you could get back on your feet after one day.

But if I were shut down for a day. I would put a, I would put a closed for the day sign out on the front door and tell you to leave and come back because if you came in maybe our receptionist would recognize you. Maybe she wouldn’t. But she certainly wouldn’t know who you were here to see, what you were here to see for.

We wouldn’t have the ability to collect payment from you, we wouldn’t be able to look at your copay. If we could pop you up in the dentist chair, we couldn’t look at any of your dental records, we couldn’t look at previous, x ray image, nothing. We’re it’s binary, we’re closed. And to bring that to bear in this current world, as we all know, from the crowd strike.

A debacle that took place just months ago. You go to your post office closed, like we, we can’t take payment cash only where everything, the whole world froze flights got canceled. I don’t have to tell people what kind of a, billion dollar. Catastrophe that created around the world.

Crap strike, right? With a version release. So think about the implications of that and know as an MSP that forget about how you’re thinking about the world, but think about how your customer is and know that when they wake up in the morning are they worried about is somebody come to work today or sure, what’s their biggest concern, their number one concern.

Is whether or not they have an employee that does something really stupid, clicks on a link, whatever, goes out and buys Amazon cards because they were, they thought they got an email from me, all the things that we do stupidly [01:00:00] in. In the way that people get attacked from a social attack perspective and number two, or actually not number one, number two, but number one, A and one B is what happens if I get hit by ransomware or some other thing, some other infiltration.

My customers, credit card, insurance information, personal information, medical records are stolen, what does this mean to my business? That’s what, I’m just giving you a dentist, but financial services, professional services, legal community, any professional community, it doesn’t matter. All businesses wake up in the morning and all business owners and they just, they’re like, I just hope.

We didn’t get hit by something. I hope I don’t wake up and go get a phone call that said, that we just got hit by, so it is top of mind for your customer and it needs to be top of mind for you and you need to be a security first MSSP, MSP, call yourself whatever you want, but you need to be a strategic partner to your customer and that is top of mind for them.

It needs to be top of mind for you and you need to be bringing, the best solutions To market and as I said, and we provide lots of training. We have a program called msp master class and we do a lot of training and education and everything else For our community, you know so that they can be really savvy about how they bring these solutions to market And do so in a way that again does not expose them to liability and And a level of responsibility that they shouldn’t be taking on and everything else There’s a way to do it.

And you got to step in it. But if you are not a security first MSP, then just like where the traditional break fix industry is your competitors are, somebody in your market is. Other people are going to go and they will go capture your customers. They will steal your customers from you because they are going to be addressing the things that are absolutely top of mind for your

customer.

So you gotta be a security first, service provider, IT service provider, full stop.

Rich: Michael really interesting conversation. I fear we will never get you back on the podcast again because we lured you into talking twice about things you weren’t planning to discuss.

For a few months. But but those were just two of many, very interesting things we discussed here for folks in the audience who want to learn more about you, get in touch with you. We’ll learn more about Synchro. Where would you point them?

Micheal: Yeah. We welcome anybody just come to our website, synchromsp.

com. And and, we have a lot of resources to make, it’s this has been, it’s interesting years, you were talking about an ecosystem. I think that’s important. But what I think is really important is around education, training, right? MSPs need more than just tools and even great tools.

They need help support peers, community partnership, and we’ve invested a lot. In really providing a lot of self guidance and real guidance, and training and education and so forth. So come to our, it’s a treasure trove of resources that we make available, to, to our partner community.

And we welcome you to come and listen and learn more. I think we’re still the only company on the planet that allows people to go and trial our product. Without having to talk to a salesperson. So that’s how much confidence we have in our products that, they will stand up on their own and you can download them and start trying it yourself without ever having to speak to a salesperson.

And I know that there is an aversion to that, particularly in this overly aggressive, and competitive vendor sales world. But that’s how much confidence we have in our product and. That’s how really MSP and community friendly we, we are as a company.

Rich: They call it product led sales. Very interesting.

Once again Michael George, CEO of Synchro, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Folks, Erick and I are going to take a quick break here when we come back on the other side. We’re going to share some final thoughts about this conversation with Michael, have a little fun, wrap up the show, stick around.

We are going to be right back.

And welcome back to part three of this episode of the MSP chat podcast. And once again, we thank Michael George for taking some time out of a very busy day to join us. A lot of interesting stuff in that conversation there Erick. Just a few things that kind of jump out at me. It was really interesting for me I remember from back when I was covering Michael during his time at Continuum, when he would talk about this [01:05:00] strategy of competing through what he likes to call labor arbitrage this idea that by Delivering services more cheaply, more cost effectively than competitors can, he was going to get an edge in the marketplace and allow MSPs to have an edge as well.

And, in the past that labor arbitrage basically was running this 24 seven knock in India and now it’s AI, but it’s a fundamentally the same analysis. of the MSP landscape and the challenges that MSPs face, it’s just we’re using a different strategy and and set of resources to address that issue.

And one that obviously wasn’t available back in the Continuum days. So that bit of continuity was interesting to me. And then I liked, I’ll just say Heath. He made a point of talking about AI, not so much as a subject in itself. It’s, it’s best thought of as an enabling technology as opposed to, anything more than that.

In the way that, once upon a time, cloud computing got talked about a little bit more than it should have, but it’s just a delivery mechanism, et cetera. I I do think. AI is best thought of as a feature and enabling technology and not an end in itself or something that you know that you’re leading within conversations with with clients.

It’s something that just enables you to do more and be better at delivering value for clients. And then last but not least, Erick, we got a little bit of a, just a little hint, a clue there about some interesting product news coming from Synchro. Not coincidentally I would say it sounds like it’s gonna be coming late in April, which is when we know from an earlier episode of the show featuring an interview with Fred Vokola of Kaseya.

Kaseya is gonna have a big announcement very end of April. Sounds like Synchro’s gonna have one too. Sounds interesting in that it’s gonna blend together somehow. RMM, PSA, backup. It’s going to have something to do with risk mitigation. Michael was making some big promises for it in terms of really turning the industry on its head.

So time will tell there as well. We will know more about that in what about a month and a half’s time right now, but very intriguing, a little set of hints that we got out of him.

Erick: Yeah, it was a very interesting interview and I’ll say, Michael pulls no punches. He’s very direct and he’s very passionate, which, I, I really.

Appreciate and respond to and, thinking back on, the story, the new story of the week and, the haves and have nots conversation that kicked us off with today, which I think that, looking at a I as being an enabling technology agreed that it’s not going to replace, Human beings that, that need to manage and maintain it and deliver it allows us to focus our energy and efforts, toward different, more profitable, more strategic roles within our organizations and for our clients the other have and have not thing that I’m thinking about right now is.

It’s been before AI and before the ability, let’s say that AI allows us to be 20 percent more efficient, right? Wow. What a huge one. Even if it’s 10%, it’s something that requires MSPs and other organizations to, to look into, because that can be a huge number when you’re talking, scale.

But before AI, we chatted during the, maybe a little bit about touched on, our options were only to. Outsourced to get more, more affordable labor, right? Now having AI in the mix, right? Is this also is a, have also the ability to leverage more cost effectively. Offshore or nearshore labor in the formula that says, what does it cost me to close a ticket, right?

So back to my tip of the week, a couple more KPIs are, cost of resolution, right? And utilization and realization by technicians. But the big one that I didn’t talk about is CSAT. So how do we take all of this and put it into our, mixing bowl? And deliver a delightful experience to clients when we’re delivering service from our core team, maybe some outsourced resources along with AI.

That’s the formula that I think will differentiate the more, the most successful MSPs over the next several years when they can figure that out and deliver service that clients love because, Hey, I don’t need to speak with. Someone for this particular ticket, I can go through an agentic engagement, to solve this thing, if it’s something simple, but when I do need to speak to somebody, it’s smart enough to reach out, ping that level one, level two or level three engineer and get me connected. So it’s almost replacing or can replace some of that call center experience that I was talking about at the beginning of the episode today, so it’s a brave new world. It’ll be [01:10:00] interesting to see, how it evolves or everyone’s benefit in the next couple of years. It’s gonna be a different support experience, a different business model for MSPs, and, at the end of the day, Hopefully delivering much better experience for their end user customers.

Rich: And I’ll just say because just as a off the top of your head as a, as an example, you invoke the number 20%. What if you could be 20 percent more efficient? And you remind me, I’m going to be, a guest on a webinar hosted by a Tara the RMN PSA company. We’ve spoken recently on the show about autopilot, which is their agentic AI technology, fully autonomous.

It goes out and it triages and remediates and addresses and documents. Service tickets without any technician involvement whatsoever. I was on a prep call with Gil Peckleman, the CEO of that company. And he mentioned that he was recently back home from a trip here in the U S where he was meeting, not with MSPs, but with corporate IT departments that had been using that technology.

And he said that Pretty consistently, they were telling him that 20 percent of the tickets that would normally make it to their helpdesk, to their level ones, just never got there. The autopilot technology just took care of them. And so to your point, Erick, just imagine if you could flick a switch and overnight, you’ve got 20 percent fewer tickets coming into the helpdesk.

What kind of impact would that have on the business? I am sure we’re going to have plenty on this topic to talk about down the road on this podcast, but for this episode of the show, we have time for just one last thing. And Erick, during the first weekend of your vacation the big game as we’re apparently supposed to call it, if we don’t want to get sued by the NFL it took place and we will congratulate the Philadelphia Eagles for winning that game.

But in the run up to that game the good folks at Molson Coors Company ran some ads for their Coors Light brand. And in big, bold letters in this advertisement, instead of boasting about the Mountain Cold Refreshment Coors Light is known for, they promoted the Mountain Cold Refreshment.

That you can get from Chorus Lite. And, talk about AI use cases here and and AI enablement. Maybe have the AI copy edit your ads down the road, folks. This goes beyond the Chorus, folks. I think all of us could probably stand. To run anything we write past chat GPT and just look out for typos like that because this one went out to the entire world and it required the course people to eat a little crow and acknowledge it.

And they did it with a sense of humor. Good for them. But a little bit embarrassing there with the help of AI. It didn’t need to happen, Erick.

Erick: Yeah, I know, Rich. I’m sure they had some big regerts about that afterwards.

Rich: Well done, sir. Well done. And folks, that is it. That is the time we’ve got for you on this week.

On this week’s episode of the show. We’ll be back in one week’s time with another episode for you. Until then, I will just remind you, this is both a video and an audio podcast, which means that if you are listening to us, but you’d like to check us out on video, go to YouTube, look up MSP Chat. You’re gonna find us there.

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If you wanna learn more about what we do for our clients, you can go to www.channel mastered.com. Channel Master has a sister organization called MSP Mastered that is Erick working directly one-on-one with MSPs to grow and optimize their business. And you can learn more about that at www.mspmastered.com.

So once again, we thank you for joining us, folks, we’ll see you in a week. Until then, please always remember you cannot spell channel. Without M. S. P.